Rules Refreshers

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jima
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Rules Refreshers

Post by jima »

HI All,

I'm starting this thread with the below topic and plan to add to this as new issues need to be addressed. I will ask that this be made sticky and will make a normal post to point to this thread when additions are made.

**********************************
It’s come to my attention through recent conversations that some refresher is needed on the current QM 422 engine rules. In 2011 AMA Pylon Contest Board passed an Emergency proposal that included significant changes in this area to maintain substantially equal performance in the class among the approved engines. The changes made by the proposal did several things:

- Limited AMA 422 to engines from two manufacturers.
- Set up an AMA 422 Engine Committee made up of four contest board members and the Contest Board Chair.
- The four members of the AMA 422 Engine Committee are specified to be made up of two members each who primarily use one of the approved manufacturer’s engines. The Contest Board Chair does not get a vote.
- Specified that all “new models” of engines must be approved by a majority vote of the AMA 422 Engine Committee.
- Specified the changes to an engine which would result in an engine being defined as a “new model” that requires approval.
1. A change that results in a measurable increase in power from the currently approved engines which would result in an imbalance in performance with existing engines.
2. A fundamental change in design, for example bore/stroke ratio, piston and cylinder porting, muffler tuning, or basic construction.
3. Changes to parts, for any reason, which results in a lack of interchangeability with existing engines. This is defined as, when one single new part cannot be installed in an existing engine without modification of another part, or parts. (a piston and liner are considered one part)
4. A change to the muffler where any dimension is changed more than .05” (1.25mm)

You can read the whole rule at 16.1.2. Powerplant in the 2015-2016 RC Pylon Rules.

This means that the configurations of the engines supplied by the two manufacturers are not to be changed without the approval of the committee if the changes meet ANY ONE of the above ways of defining a “new model” of engine. Neither of the current manufacturers have requested any approvals since implementation of this rule at the end of 2011. Changes to parts that improve durability but don’t meet any of the above criteria that defines a “new engine” would not require approval of the committee. An example might be a strengthened or increased durability connecting rod would come to mind as a change that would not require committee approval.

One more area where there may be some lack of understanding is the interchange of parts from other engine models. It is illegal to use, in competition, a part in a QM422 engine that was made by one of the approved manufacturers for another model of engine, like a Quickie 500 engine or an FAI engine, that is different than the part used in the approved 422 engine. For example, the Cylinder Head or a Cylinder for a Nelson Q500 LS engine or a Nelson FAI engine would NOT be allowed to be used in a QM 422 engine if it’s different than the QM part. This is stipulated as part of requiring the engines to be "Stock" in paragraph 16.1.2.a.2) Configuration, as supplied by the approved manufacturer and in the approved configuration. The definition of "Stock" is UNMODIFIED. Putting a Q5500 LS head on a 422 engine would be modifying from the approved configuration.

It is also illegal for a part to be used in a 422 contest that is made by the approved manufacturer that is different in any way from the approved configuration that would meet any one of the four criteria for a “new model” engine above. As an example, if the porting of a part, like a cylinder, is changed that results in a measurable increase in performance by one of the approved manufacturers for their engine, that change must be approved by the 422 Engine Committee PRIOR to use in competition and may not be allowed to be used for up to 90 days after approval if the Committee feels it is prudent.

So, to summarize, you are not allowed to use parts that are not part of the approved configuration of a 422 engine in competition. This is true for a part from another type or model of engine from the approved manufacturer or a unique part that is different in some way from the approved configuration that increases the performance of the engine or effects interchangability.

I hope this is clear. These rules were put in place to keep the competition in 422 as equal as possible between the two engine manufacturers and fair for everyone to protect the quality of this great sport. Changes that make racers re-invent their engine inventory like 2007 when the LS engines were introduced proved our sport is very fragile. We have been very stable for a while now and we don’t need to upset things. At the recent Phoenix race, fast time was 59.60 but there were 7 more pilots between that and one minute and 26 of the 85 pilots went under 1:02. The competition was amazing. Let’s keep it that way.

Thanks and good racing!!

Jim Allen
RC Pylon Contest Board Chair
RBG
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Re: Rules Refreshers

Post by RBG »

Jim glad to see you address the rules on legal engines. Fabulous first step. Now we CD' s need the tools to enforce said rules. At this time we have nothing from the Jett/Nelson mfg on dimensions and tolerance to compare to the winning motors.
Lets step up and get said tolerances and specs on motors, therefore we can put to bed the whining that there are motors used that are not to mfg spec.

Bob Greer CD 6501. 29s
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Re: Rules Refreshers

Post by DHG »

+1 to Bob's comment. An excellent, proactive effort which ought to minimize any future "litigation at registration". The event has been stable and top-quality for quite a while now, looking forward to more!

Cheers,
Duane Gall
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airplanescotty
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Re: Rules Refreshers

Post by airplanescotty »

As a new CD, I have pondered the whole motor inspection issue. Mostly because during an earlier life I was a machinist making landing gear for
C-130 & 727 aircraft!

I very much enjoyed the precision of measuring to the Thousand's of an inch. Keeping tolerances of +- 0.010 and all that :P

One of the fun parts of the Team Trials, assisting Mr. O'Brien in assuring the winning motors were in compliance :P :D

If we assume manufacturer specification availability,,,, we also need the ability to determine compliance at a picnic table under a canopy at the venue. :o :roll: :wink: :)

An approved equipment list and procedure, from each manufacturer, along with "How To Use".

Example: The manufacture or rules committee would state,,,,, To determine Measure "A", using a Zero to One Mic, measure from this point to that point,, the acceptable measurements are "X" to "Y" for motor "J" and "Q" to "R" for motor "N".

Finally, At the Team Trials,, I thought, multiple people being involved in the inspection process was completely appropriate!!!!

XXOO

Scotty
QTR ~ Waste Not A Moment!!!!!
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Re: Rules Refreshers

Post by wkevinm »

On the topic of engines

I was of the understanding that when a person purchased an engine from a manufacturer you essentially received the next engine off the line, an engine that was manufactured to a set of approved tolerances, tolerances that are very tight and fair for all. I have at the same time heard (perhaps incorrectly) that some contestants request engines with tolerances that align to the buyer’s preference, still within design parameters but compounded tolerances that have shown stronger than average performance characteristics. Does this occur and if so is this considered in the spirit of the rules?
bob brogdon
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Re: Rules Refreshers

Post by bob brogdon »

I have heard that some people have asked for changes to the "stock" setup of the engines, but it is my understanding that neither Jett or Nelson manufacturers provide that service. All engines are delivered within set tolerances without regard to special requests.

Bob
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Re: Rules Refreshers

Post by wkevinm »

Thanks Bob, good to know.
Kevin
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Re: Rules Refreshers

Post by ceandra »

At the Nats I observed several flights in which the plane was launched from several or more feet BEHIND the start line. I can only presume this was to get a "running start", as the plane would cross the start line at the start signal, already moving. However, this appears to be an early launch:

13.1.7: Each heat race begins with the aircraft stationary at or behind the start/finish line

and

13.1.12: Pilots whose callers push off before their launch signal shall receive a cut for that heat.

Therefore, the flight is considered started when the caller pushes (pane no longer stationary), not when the plane crosses the start line. Starting well behind the line in order to push early appears to be cause for an early launch cut. Starting well behind the start line could also be a safety issue, if the plane were "hooked" into a neighboring start box.

Chuck
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Re: Rules Refreshers

Post by ceandra »

Here is another discussion at the Nats. This was not an issue for any team, but a discussion that led to looking up rules:

3.6. Weight
Weights specified are for the complete aircraft, ready to fly except for
fuel. At least one aircraft from each heat shall be weighed immediately
after the heat with any residual fuel remaining in the tank. In addition, the
Contest Director (CD) may require any aircraft to be drained of fuel and
weighed at any time.

So weighing with residual fuel is a simplification for race procedures. But the minimum weight must be met DRY, and the CD is free to check this on any suspect planes (or, really, for any reason at any time). Make sure your DRY plane meats the minimum weight requirement!

Chuck
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Re: Rules Refreshers

Post by RSmith »

Hi Chuck,
I agree on the question of start line launch procedure. I think the rule is very clear. Pushing the plane from behind the line prior to the clock reaching zero is clearly an early launch in my mind.

I recall in Phoenix at the Q40 Classic this year, Doug Houston, my Caller, got me a launch cut from the Starter, Steve Mascari because Doug was moving the plane back and forth just behind the start line prior to the clock reaching zero. I presume Doug was doing this to get his arm ready for a good heave ho. The wheels of my plane would move in front of the start line and then move behind it. Steve did not like that and gave me/Doug an early launch cut. So in the next round Doug decided to pull the plane about two feet back from the start line so he could do his back and forth movement before the flag and the wheels would not move in front of the start line. Steve would NOT allow it. Steve insisted that the wheels be very near the start line (within a few inches) and the plane be stationary. Steve was right.

Regarding the weight rule, that is also very clear. Your plane must comply to minimum weight with tank DRY.


Randy
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Re: Rules Refreshers

Post by KRProton »

Oh dear, probably shouldn't insert my opinion here, but on the subject of early pushes,.etc. regarding the above comments, as I gain experience over the years and am able to observe what is going on around me a little more, I sure do see a LOT of early pushes everywhere where I go. Without insulting race officials and contest directors who all work very hard, I would also like to see the rules for pushing airplanes reinforced tighter.

I think part of the problem may be that it is not really possible for the starter to see both the clock and look down the start line at the same time. Then, the starter cannot really know if somebody pushed early.

I'm not certain, but I believe at the Mike Tallman races they place a start official to the right of the start line so that, when he looks down the line the clock is also in his view.

Tim Lampe
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Re: Rules Refreshers

Post by delateurj »

bump
ceandra
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Re: Rules Refreshers

Post by ceandra »

I have seen several times this year that pilots "understood" the start rule to allow the plane to take off up to a lap, or half a lap, after the flag. While this is true (half lap essentially) in FAI, it is NOT TRUE in AMA racing.

Rulebook 13.1.8.a:
Pilots have a maximum of one (1) minute to start their engines and prepare for takeoff. Once the starting period has elapsed, any pilot who is not prepared for takeoff (facing #1 pylon with both hands on the transmitter while their airplane’s engine is running) is disqualified from the heat and shall not be allowed to fly or run his/her engine on the course. All pilots, who were disqualified for not being ready at the end of the starting period, will not be eligible for a restart or a “refly” as described in 13.1.15.

So if it ain't running at the end of the minute, AND pilot ready to fly (facing #1, hands on radio), then you have MISSED THE HEAT and get a zero.

Chuck
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Re: Rules Refreshers

Post by RCjunkie »

Were can I find a updated rule book for Pylon
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Re: Rules Refreshers

Post by twitte »

The current rules are here on the AMA website.

https://www.modelaircraft.org/events/co ... egulations

These are in affect until Dec 31, 2023.

The 2024 rules will be posted either on Jan 1, 2024 or here shortly.

Trey
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