FAI format used at the CAPS Indy shoot out

[kane]

Guys,

I am putting this post up here to get feedback regarding running two events using the FAI scoring methods during the shootout.

I will keep my comments to myself until the end.

Here are some details of what was done:

1. three plane heats, staggered start (1 second intervals) Clock started for each lane when the signal to launch was given in 426. EF-1 we moved the starting line back about 15-20 feet and launched the airplanes on the signal but the timers started the clock as their pilot crossed the start finish line to begin the race.
2. We flew 4 rounds intended on 5 but weather had other ideas. After 4 rounds we threw away a pilots slowest time.
3. Used 10% penalty for one cut and 200 score for 2 cuts or DNF/DNS.
4. Used the appropriate AMA course for each class. 475' (426) and 375' (EF-1)

Huge thank you to Tom Melshimer for manning the Plate system all weekend and Chuck Andraka for working through some scoring stuff! This was an enormous task and these two have done some incredible work to get to this point. I can't emphasize enough how integral some people are to our success and these two stand on the top.

Let me know your thoughts.

DK

[Chago_N20P]

I really liked the FAI format, I hope we use it more often. I enjoy flying against a clock.

I thought switching lanes between rounds would become a poopoo show, but it did not. It was really easy to follow.

In fact, if I was to take part of this format for AMA competition it would be the 4 colors and switching lanes.

Chago

[dwc1]

My thoughts:

We accomplished what we set out to do by testing the course for the upcoming WC. To echo DK, you can really see that Tom M etal. has put in a lot of work to make the system run smoothly. We don't thank those guys enough, and obviously couldn't do what we do without them.

I prefer head to head racing, however, I did like the lanes changing between rounds, and would like to see that incorporated into our normal program.

Personally, i would like us to consider using the FAI spacing between poles at 2 and 3. It creates a wider course that I feel is a little safer. It would put us using the same 2/3 that the rest of the world uses, and possibly reduce the number of times someone flies right down the middle of the course over the top of everyone's head.

[KRProton]

Thanks to Tom Melsheimer, Dan Kane, Tom Scott and all the others who continually do so much work to allow us to enjoy pylon racing whatever the format.

Regarding the FAI system we tested on Saturday for EF1 and 426, as far as I could tell, mechanically it seemed to go well with no operational technical problems that I could see. There were a few scoring glitches that I'm sure will get worked out, but I think the lighting system and the overall operation worked great. From a caller's perspective, all the lights/signals/clock were clearly visible. I will say that AMA heat racing is the way to go. The FAI format where pilots are scored strictly by time may be more "relaxing" and "gentlemanly", but FAI also eliminates the dynamic, in-race tactics and much of the excitement of head-to-head heat racing (even if AMA is probably more destructive to equipment! ).

One aspect of FAI I really did like was switching lanes each round. Because of the way the lanes were marked (by different, contrasting colors), I had absolutely no trouble switching lanes and identifying the correct light. Of course, this way nobody is stuck in a lane with a bad pylon judge -- any inconsistencies between judges are experienced by every pilot. On the other hand, teams could be caught off-guard and surprised when switching lanes between judges with varying degrees of consistency, focus or reaction time. This could open up a whole other can of worms, but maybe a smaller can than how we are doing it now.

Finally, the printed "race ticket" each pilot received after the race with lap times, overall time, infractions and where they occurred was interesting and informational. I believe this also eliminated many of the questions and disputes that can occur after some races. If this system could be transferred to the AMA format we normally use that would be awesome!

Thanks for the opportunity.

Tim Lampe

[Chago_N20P]

Finally, the printed "race ticket" each pilot received after the race with lap times, overall time, infractions and where they occurred was interesting and informational. I believe this also eliminated many of the questions and disputes that can occur after some races. If this system could be transferred to the AMA format we normally use that would be awesome!

Oh yeah, I also favor the race ticket. In every case for me it told the story, and although not always perfect it was a great feedback.

[MikeyD]

Yep, thanks again to Tom M. Dan K. and all the organizers. Like others, I think the equipment worked well. The needle moving changes need to happen in the process.

Below are some observations
• Getting the buggy to and from the line continues to be opportunity for improvement. Pilots need to get their asses in the buggy too! A pit boss to keep things flowing might not be a bad idea.
• Easier said than done, but knowing who your workers are and having them in the right positions will also go a long way. The starter was a bit slow, I’m sure that will get fixed, however I did observe him complaining about his radio. For some reason he could only talk to the timers cage and they had to relay his message back to the tent. That was one element slowing us down. I guess this had been going on a while by the time he made a frustrating mention of it.
• The race tickets were way cool. Tom M. met us as we were coming in. I think a clip board would suffice allowing Tom to be freed up for other important race operations.
• Switching lanes was also a highlight for me. Rearranging the color order below the lights between rounds was a slight delay, perhaps an opportunity for improving in the future as well.
• Crashes - People tend to want to collect their junk right away sometimes holding up the next heat. Pilot meeting topic.
• Because of the wind on Friday most people were standing around, it was a good call to have the pilots meeting. Dan and Tom did a great job explaining race procedure and answering questions.


Lastly, and not related to FAI, I thought Tom’s registration process was brilliant. You basically had to buy your name badge (entry fee) and place it on a “team board”. This completely took Tom out of the middle of chasing who’s on who’s team – Genius!

Mike D

[Greg Doe]

A lot of positive comments here. I could make some negative observations, but I won't. Well there is one comment I will make. Why haven't the results been posted? The Fred Burgdorf Memorial race was this past weekend, and the results were posted Monday. Here's a suggestion: How about prorated refunds if five rounds aren't completed because the race started late, a long lunch break was taken, or hours of daylight remained when the race was called. Bad weather would always be a legitimate reason for an abbreviated race. Saturday at the Indy Shoot Out we had a double whammy because of problems with a new untested system, and the WEATHER. In order to properly try out the new system, someone had to be the guinea pigs, so we can all bask in glory of our contribution to the model racing community. Now that I have succumbed to "hoof-and-mouth" disease I'll refrain from alienating the entire NMPRA community.

[kane]

A lot of positive comments here. I could make some negative observations, but I won't. Well there is one comment I will make. Why haven't the results been posted? The Fred Burgdorf Memorial race was this past weekend, and the results were posted Monday. Here's a suggestion: How about prorated refunds if five rounds aren't completed because the race started late, a long lunch break was taken, or hours of daylight remained when the race was called. Bad weather would always be a legitimate reason for an abbreviated race. Saturday at the Indy Shoot Out we had a double whammy because of problems with a new untested system, and the WEATHER. In order to properly try out the new system, someone had to be the guinea pigs, so we can all bask in glory of our contribution to the model racing community. Now that I have succumbed to "hoof-and-mouth" disease I'll refrain from alienating the entire NMPRA community.

I thought you weren't going to make negative comments?

Regarding when the contest was called and daylight hours....
It had just poured rain, the workers were wet, this started at 3:00, it was almost 4 pm when the race was called and they had been there since before 8 am. I consulted with two airlines pilots and others regarding the radar. At the time we called the race it didn't look as if it was going to get any better. We made the best choice we could at the time. Did the weather get better? Yep it sure did.

Regarding 4 rounds of flying... There was a slight delay in start but really no more than 15 mins past 9. I would love to fly more than 4 rounds it just wasn't possible. Our goal is to fly as many as possible.

Keeping heats moving is a product of the cart, pilots and the starter. We had delays by all three.

Workers need a break during the day. And taking a lunch break is necessary.

Soured experience... sorry it didn't go as expected. Can't change the past and how the race was run needed to happen. It was very necessary, I thank everyone for letting us do this.

DK

[Greg Doe]

OK Dan, I wasn't talking about the race being called on Saturday because of the miserable weather. That was obviously the correct call. I was talking about Sunday. I fully agree that the workers need a break, but why can't we have relief workers to fill in for lunch breaks, so racing is uninterrupted? We need to have a plan to fall back on if there are unplanned delays. We had an impromptu pilots meeting Friday that saved time Saturday morning. Kudos to whomever made that call. Every worker location on the race course needs one extra person to cover for relief, and breaks. I've been to races, and CD races where this format was used, and it makes a difference when there is a large turnout, or weather is a problem. Finally, if you go back and read what I wrote, the only "negative comment" I made was actually a question about why the results haven't been posted yet. In addition I made a SUGGESTION for a prorated refund if 5 rounds aren't completed. Maybe that would be an incentive to exhaust every avenue to complete 5 rounds. You may think my comments are "sour" but if someone doesn't speak up nothing will change. I appreciate, and congratulate everyone who put forth the enormous effort into this race and all our races. Thankyou.

[kane]

OK Dan, I wasn't talking about the race being called on Saturday because of the miserable weather. That was obviously the correct call. I was talking about Sunday. I fully agree that the workers need a break, but why can't we have relief workers to fill in for lunch breaks, so racing is uninterrupted? We need to have a plan to fall back on if there are unplanned delays. We had an impromptu pilots meeting Friday that saved time Saturday morning. Kudos to whomever made that call. Every worker location on the race course needs one extra person to cover for relief, and breaks. I've been to races, and CD races where this format was used, and it makes a difference when there is a large turnout, or weather is a problem. Finally, if you go back and read what I wrote, the only "negative comment" I made was actually a question about why the results haven't been posted yet. In addition I made a SUGGESTION for a prorated refund if 5 rounds aren't completed. Maybe that would be an incentive to exhaust every avenue to complete 5 rounds. You may think my comments are "sour" but if someone doesn't speak up nothing will change. I appreciate, and congratulate everyone who put forth the enormous effort into this race and all our races. Thankyou.

Don't take my first comment for anything other than tongue and cheek.

Regarding Sunday. We started flying at 8:45. Earlier than anticipated and later than we would have liked. This is what happened Sunday...

Finished 5 heats of 426, had 1 refly.

Changed the course for Ef-1 and flew two rounds of EF-1 (Changing course in all cases requires the #1 judges to pack up and move to another pole)

Changed the course, flew 2 rounds of 424

Changed the course and flew 2 round of 422

Took a lunch break

After lunch we flew 1 more round of 422 ( can't remember the sequence but 3 rounds were flown)

Changed the course and flew 2 rounds of 424, had one fly off.

Switched to 422 course and flew 1 final round of 422, and finished with two fly offs.

We handed out the awards at 5:00 pm.

This was a long day partly due to the weather we had on Saturday.

Regarding pro-rated entry fee... Maybe there is something there. In the case of this weekend I feel we went above and beyond to get as much done as possible. Again, I apologize for everything that didn't go as planned.

DK

[KRProton]

Getting off the original topic, but still hopefully constructive; on one hand I want to say that I think things could be sped up if the cart driver and the starter were more authoritative and proactive, rather than feeling they are responsible for making sure everybody is present, ready and set (with the exception of the cart driver assuring that everyone on the cart is seated). I think the cart driver could leave the pits sooner and the starter could start the clock sooner. Would we want to eliminate the radio check procedure and leave it to the pilots/callers to check? That would have to save a lot of time.

On the other hand, there are a million exceptions that cause delays such as minor technical problems to airplanes on the line (forgot to fuel, glow igniter died, fuel cut failed, wrong/forgotten sticker, etc., etc.), retrieving planes from the previous heat that have landed long or short, slow walkers retrieving planes (no offense - it's a fact of life), crashed planes, disputes and course equipment failures.

So if we become more militant procedurally (cart leaving early, starter starting earlier), pilots may give less leeway to organizers/officials when the error is on their side leading to more confrontations and a less pleasant time for all.

Bottom line is, I would still like to urge the starter and the cart driver to take more control. (But again, I doubt they would enjoy the added pressure because who wants to get snapped back at by a short-tempered (even if momentarily) pylon racer?)

Finally, I think one of the things that seems to prolong lunch time is test flying. On one hand (again), I'm not sure if pilots are just taking advantage of the time available, or if continual test flying pressures organizers to accommodate. Somehow though, the lunch period needs to be shortened and restricting test flying seems like a good start.

Tim Lampe

[Sparky]

Two rounds of the same class caught me out because I was floating in the heat line up and had a quick turn around. Mikey D drove us out thanks!
Al seemed to do a better job of driving the cart, one time the cart left empty as I was approaching, he didn't stop.
He said he saw me coming but didn't want to stop since he was already moving out to the line to retrieve the heat landing.....

BIG BIG acknowledgement to Tom and crew. Having someone that cares that much about getting it right and taking responsibility to make it happen is so impressive! The mind set between clock racing and head to head racing is certainly different. I prefer the latter, head to head racing.
I think we had one midair in FAI so boys will still race!

On Saturday the Thunder overhead was a bigger concern when the race was called than the rain. Lightening strikes are a very real possibility. Twice I've been within 50' of a lightening strike.
Giving the race workers (kids) a definite completion time is also important to acknowledge. I don't know if we negotiate a drop dead time with the scouts but racing NLT 1700 gives the adults in their group a reasonable plan.
I don't need a refund if we don't get 5 rounds in. There are finite costs to the race promoters that don't change based on how much fun (rounds) we have. Of all the expenses we have in a race weekend this isn't a deal breaker. IMHO it might only serve as veiled threat to the race promoters as we better get 5 rounds or we loose money. I'm sure the race promoters want to get 5 rounds completed too.
I hope back to back Rounds of the same class doesn't become routine and this is a one off situation. With electric and getting things cooled off and recharging batteries is difficult then if there is a refly thrown in it becomes problematic. I generally consider 30 minutes between flights with my electric as the absolute minimum to give temps a chance to come down.
I liked the color boards for each lane. I would prefer they get adopted for our AMA racing too! It makes it easier for us poor callers to quickly glance at the board and figure out whom has a cut. I know the the LED lights that mark the lanes have can be confused with cuts and adding the color boards makes it easier for all concerned.

Did anyone else notice the blue light that illuminated on the lap board when they cut pylon 1 ? I know no one else cut pylon one so the light never got turned on for them. It makes it easier to see in the sea of red LED's.

Tireless efforts from Tom ! There will always be a beer in my tent when you want one. (water too)

Sparky
Team Prowler

[iamtom]

Nice to see positive reviews of a race. Thanks Tim.
Tom Scott.

[MAWSON88]

Looking forward to see it work in real life being a participant at the worlds then get a taste of Head to Head at the Nationals (EF1 & Q40) - Team Australia