NATIONALS 2022..

[mikecondon]

We will be going with a single matrix in 426 and 422 with a target of 8 rounds.
Fly offs for 1st 2nd and 3rd place only. All other finished positions will be determined by time in the trophy placement.
No test flying allowed prior to official processing.
Any other related issues will be announced on site.


Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

[T.Doe]

Alright so question , we fly 8 rounds and then go to 24 or so field and fly 5 more rounds to determine the winner and bow we're goto shot for 8 rounds. Maybe I missed something but the math doesn't add up there

[stoned]

Only 8 rounds per class? Why? I thought last years format worked well. With the cost of gas and everything else it's almost not worth it. Not griping just wondering.

[T.Doe]

Alright my previous post was not clear and complete. So in the past we have flown 8 rounds of preliminaries, then gone to five rounds of finals with 24 or so contestants. The point I'm trying to make is with 2 days for racing we should be able to achieve 10 or 12 rounds. With the coast of travel and events we should be seeing 8 rounds in are one day events and 10 to 12 in are 2 day events,the only thing that should affect that is weather.

[mikecondon]

Let me be a bit clearer.....target 8 rounds minimum. 6 rounds in one day are brutal
5 is the target for 1st day. 8 rounds or 10 rounds will be determined at a later date. Single matrix with NO qualifying. 8 is the minimum target based on time allowed. Other venues beyond that are being explored. Once the event starts there will be no changes. A possible 5 and 5 are being considered.

[mikecondon]

As of today, 426,422 will be flown to 10 rounds. 6 and 4 or 5 and 5 will be determined at a later date.

[kane]

In addition to Mike's post regarding single matrix...

AMA 424 will be run according to the AMA rulebook. 424E models will not be allowed to be flown. 424E is a NMPRA event until it has been proven. 424 must be run according to the AMA rulebook to be flown as an official event (which it is). If in the future we switch it to an UN-official event we at that point can run 424E. Having said all that. NO electric models will be allowed to compete at the 2022 NATS.

DK/Trey/Mike

[Bill J]

I am disappointed to see the Nat’s format change to a one 10 round matrix format. I always looked forward to the qualifying and the finals format. For me the qualifying strategy, do I need a time or points to make the finals was a welcome change from our normal contest format. Then the finals are 100% all out with the best of the best racers flying against each other to crown the champion. Today, there are 10-15 or more racers who could potentially win the NAT’s and I think we should support a racing format that promotes as many head-to-head heats between these racers as possible. I think the qualifying and finals results in a more deserving champion than the single matrix format. I know there is some talk about this format being a “Crash Fest”, but I look at what happens at Phoenix every year in a one matrix format, and I don’t think that argument carries water.
Just my thoughts.
Bill

[kane]

I am disappointed to see the Nat’s format change to a one 10 round matrix format. I always looked forward to the qualifying and the finals format. For me the qualifying strategy, do I need a time or points to make the finals was a welcome change from our normal contest format. Then the finals are 100% all out with the best of the best racers flying against each other to crown the champion. Today, there are 10-15 or more racers who could potentially win the NAT’s and I think we should support a racing format that promotes as many head-to-head heats between these racers as possible. I think the qualifying and finals results in a more deserving champion than the single matrix format. I know there is some talk about this format being a “Crash Fest”, but I look at what happens at Phoenix every year in a one matrix format, and I don’t think that argument carries water.
Just my thoughts.
Bill

Bill, everyone has an opinion and this topic has been debated over and over again. What doesn't hold water in your comments is the best fly the best. Not true. With 50 entries you take the top 24-28 pilots this is around 50% you say only 10-15 can win. What happens to the rest? Are they the best? BS. By the end of finals we have 2 plane heats, and people drop out, this is some of the best and therefore, you are not flying the best against best. In fact the best of the best could all be in one column. I will make sure to tell anyone that has won a race not using the qualifying finals format that they were not a true winner, because they didn't fly the best of the best.

I hate the finals format for the following reasons...

Fast pace, if calling for multiple pilots no rest and no time to prepare my equipment, "CRASH FEST" Perceived/Real doesn't matter it exists, pilots making the finals based on chance or best time regardless of heat scores this gives these guys who weren't good enough during qualifying a second chance, more than half the entries makes the finals, one fast time doesn't represent winners of an event; the guy that collects the most points does and during qualifying all of this is thrown out the window before finals, one entry fee yet 1/2 the pilots don't fly the same number of rounds.

I go to the NATs because it is the NATs. Not because of the format. I will continue to attend no matter what. I race because I love to race regardless of format. I win and I lose. No matter what we do it will be the same for everyone. A winner is a winner, it doesn't matter how that is determined. Mike C. has struggled with this and he has made a change for us. Not for him. Why, because he truly does care to give the best experience possible. Whether this is the correct decision or not, I support him will donate my entry fee like a good Donkey. Heck if only 10-15 people have a chance to win what's the point?

In any case hope to see everyone in a couple of weeks.

BTW, if you need an excuse to not attend, I can provide some.

DK

[mcdracing]

As a member of team “Donkey”


This will be my first time attending the Nats. I was reluctant in years past because of the qualifying format.
It didn’t seem to make sense to spend the money to travel from California and maybe fly for one day. I’m looking forward to flying against the top 10-15!


P.S.(I’m not a “real winner”)

[marcus1899]

Well for something that is just an “opinion”, it seems as if someone is very “opinionated”.

Personally I agree with Billy. Bryan and I have always been very much in favor of the Nationals format that has been this way for over 20 years now I believe.

And I disagree with Danny that the best of the best are not part of the finals. The finals format absolutely brings the best or the top 24-28 in that event at the time or that week into contention in the end, whereas several of those top dawgs may never see each other on the line for the same heat in just a single matrix 8-10 rounds long.

I mean lets face it, in 8 rounds, 4 plane heats, that’s 32 contestants to the line for your personal heats, take yourself out of the equation and now your only flying against 24 pilots.

But fly against those 24 pilots in a qualifying matter, do decent enough to qualify and then reshuffle the matrix and fly against 24-28 guys again, some of who you never saw in the qualifying rounds, so in the end you have gone up against more pilots to be determined National Champion.

A Champion is a Champion, no matter the format, but this format for the past 20 plus years has just been something different, just a different game, different strategies, different conversations during the day, at night, etc. You have people looking at scores, where am I, what’s going on, am I going to make it, again just something different to bring that extra bit of excitement to the table.

Doesn’t mean anybody is right or wrong on their opinions.

We have ALL seen the people who are expected to make the finals, but personally its awesome to see the people who aren’t expected to make it get in and they grin from ear to ear. They can make the finals and come in 20th, but they are excited they accomplished that feat more than they are to just finish 20th after flying 8-10 rounds. We have all seen this, you can’t deny that.

Personally I have won this event twice, both times in my 5th round I flew in a 4 plane heat and still had to finish 1st or 2nd in that heat to win the NATS. So saying that when it comes down to the end its only 2 plane heats is not always an accurate statement and can also be said about a single matrix format. Get a couple zeros early on and you will still see people dropping out to save their equipment.

Crash Fest, sometimes yes that is very true. But we as pilots are as much of the fault of that as anything because once the flag drops, none of us have any brains to get out of the way, and callers nowadays are top notch on the pole at #1, the callers are all pushing from the drop of the flag and with the racehorse start when we all get back to 2-3 nobody gets out of the way, so many factors come into affect for it to be a crash fest. But it is a crash fest because the pilots that are having the best week are all flying against each other during the finals.

We all know what we are getting into when we sign up to fly a pylon event. As unfortunate as it can be, crashing is a part of this game/event and we all know that going in. It’s part of the high speed, high adrenaline rush we all desire.

I Love the Finals for the following reasons…

Fast paced, exciting, running around, flying, calling, fixing, getting ready, and if you’re calling for too many pilots than that is a choice you make going in. A great choice for all the people out there that need help, but also being a great caller can cause this, Bryan has been thru this with several people asking him to call, but sometimes you have to make some tough decisions that allow you to control your destiny.

A second chance, a chance to right a wrong, a chance to reshuffle, and more chances to finish better at the NATS, than you ever will. If you get any zeros early on in a single matrix, you won’t recover.

In the finals, many times the winner has gotten a zero, but also that pilot still wins because there are so many zeros. Not necessarily because of a crash fest, but also because of the tight racing, pole to pole to pole and the cutting goes off the charts with each and every pilot trying to get that edge on the next guy.

Finals brings those big names into the same heats, whereas if those big names gets a lucky draw, they might never be heats of that caliber. I called in a heat recently with Gino, Bryan, Jason Duda and I’m not even sure who the 4th guy was, but damn was it intense. All the way across the finish line. 10 laps wing tip to wing tip, and Bryan lost, came in 2nd, but he felt like he won, he still hasn’t stopped talking about how exciting and what an adrenaline rush it was to be in that heat.

Spectator attention, meaning it really feels like you have more people paying attention to those finals heats, watching and rooting, than you will come round 8, 9 or 10 of a single matrix where we might already potentially know who the winner was going to be for the past couple rounds.

I understand the argument of some pilots flying more rounds than others, but its also a national event, name me any other national sports events that you don’t have to qualify, be invited, win some type of playoffs or something similar to be crowned, you will have a hard time finding that sport.

So for some this decision takes a little wind out of the sail unfortunately because of this once a year different kind of adrenaline rush excitement, both good and bad over the past couple of decades is now gone

Hope this “opinion” doesn’t go over too bad, but it probably will!

Marcus and Bryan

[kane]

Well seems like some else is very opinionated!

Regarding the last two decades… it’s not gone. However every Nats prior to the last 2 decades it was a single matrix.

Half the pilots flying in the finals is not the best of the best, sorry. When we had 80 to 100 contestants finals/qualifying made sense, from a worker standpoint and flying all the good guys. Today is not the same as 20 yrs ago, when the finals were birthed. So be it. I have had fly offs and heats where you look down the line and the other 3 guys are damn good. This isn’t a finals thing. This is a racing thing. The matrix stuff isn’t what it was 20 years ago. Today parity and equipment have made the racing more intense.

I have competed in the Nats for every year since the finals began. I am not a fan. And this doesn’t make me any less competitive or inclined to attend.

You do what you gotta do.

[Greg Doe]

Let's give the single matrix a chance this year, and if the majority doesn't like it, go back to the preliminary/finals format next year. Personally I like the one matrix format for the Nats. Then I would like to see that followed with a trophy dash of the top 7 based on time. The three slowest pilots would be seeded in a "C" Main. The next two would be in a "B" main, and the two fastest would be in the "A": main. Winner of the "C" would advance to the "B". Winner of the "B" would advance to the "A". The final winner would be the Nats Trophy Dash Champion. This format would only add 3 more heat races to the Nats. Tell me how bad an idea this is. It won't hurt my feelings.

[rocket]

Qualifying, single, whatever. Let's race. If we're throwing curve balls here's another. Super finals. After 8 rounds the top 4 fly 1 heat. Winner takes all. A true Nats champion. An easy matrix might have gotten you to the top now let's see you stay there and prove you earned that trophy. This eliminates matrix winners.

[cbk07]

I don’t have a horse in the race as I have decided not to attend the NATS, but it is this kind of bs that has weighed heavily on my decision not to attend. Shouldn’t the format of a race be decided and published prior to opening registration for the event rather than less than a month before the race and after most contestants have already planned and paid? When wildcard finalist names started getting pulled out of a hat rather than being based on performance, this event became a joke to me. And I have heard comments that there are certain people that “will never win the NATS” just because they are not liked by a certain individual. The list goes on and on.

I just hope that the worlds are run more more based on merit than favoritism. Have fun all!