EF-1 on 5s battery

A forum for electric pylon racing discussisons including Electric Formula 1.
JSC
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EF-1 on 5s battery

Post by JSC »

OK, I flew the EF-1 Invictus today using the Horizon Rare Bear 15BL motor and ESC, with a 5s 3300mah battery (to heavy). will try a 2700mah 5s next. WOW, What a difference in speed, Robert Holik thought it was the speed of a 426 +/-, No problems. And Man, does it groove soooo much better. I think it pulled about 70amps.
How about some of you guys give this set-up a try-out? 8)
JSC
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Re: EF-1 on 5s battery

Post by JSC »

http://www.horizonhobby.com/product/air ... np-efl1275 Next to the Pic of the Rare Bear is a link to Parts and Upgrades.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/15-bl-outru ... p-eflm1215
http://www.horizonhobby.com/70-amp-swit ... p-efla1070
This motor bolted right to the fire wall of my Invictus using some 3/8 inch spacers
The 15BL Motor is the same Diameter as the E-Flight EF-1 Motor. The 15Bl has bolt-on Prop shaft, and, uses the same motor mount as the E-Flight EF-1 motor. I'm guessing that Horizon designed this ESC for this Motor (guessing). Horizon told me the ESC was un-programmable and didn't say what the setting were on the ESC.
I'll post later what amps/watts I get running the 5s APC8x8 prop 8)
dscherrer
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Re: EF-1 on 5s battery

Post by dscherrer »

if the 15BL is the same diameter as the EF1 motor, and only 1200 KV, what was the advantage to using it.

DS
JSC
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Re: EF-1 on 5s battery

Post by JSC »

Thats a good question. I was under the impression that a stock EF-1 motor could not handle a 5s battery. One guy told me, he tired it, (5s battery) an all he got was, a lot of noise and not much increase in speed. I'll try the E-Flight EF-1 motor on 5s and see what RPM I get. See if it over heats, Amps it pulls.
dscherrer
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Re: EF-1 on 5s battery

Post by dscherrer »

Craig Korsen talks about an EQ500 setup they are using in the northeast.

Here is the link on RC Groups
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost ... stcount=20

Any 424 Legal Q500 airframe
Any of the currently legal EF-1 Motors
100 Amp Speed control
5s 2700 MaH Pack
APC 7.4x7.6 422 prop.

Apparently they are using 5S on the EF1 motors.
cbk07
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Re: EF-1 on 5s battery

Post by cbk07 »

Doug, here is the link to a post made on our NEPRO forum by Lloyd B who did much of the research

http://nepro.lefora.com/topic/13/2016-E ... sTJLPkrLIU


"In an effort to help grow our racing base, we are allowing electrics to race with TT40's and Evo 46 in the standard class. Rules are as follow: any legal non composite wing quickie allowed in AMA424. Any legal EF1 25 size elelctric motor, any legal 4S lipo battery pack (up to 325 grams) a 75-100 amp controller and any propeller combination. You may also use a 5S 2700ma battery pack, however only the QM40 APC 7.4 x 7.6 prop is allowed. (LP 07476C). Electrics will not be allowed to compete in the expert class."


If I understood his explanation correctly, the reasoning behind the 7.4 x 7.6 prop when using the 5S pack was twofold. 1) To keep speed close to the same or lower than our current 424 setups, and 2) To ensure the prop would not come apart on 5S. I believe they were able to get speeds over 120mph using other props, just can't remember if they were electric props or 426 props. Hopefully Lloyd will chime in as I may be getting my facts jumbled a bit
dscherrer
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Re: EF-1 on 5s battery

Post by dscherrer »

Craig,
I am guessing there is no issue with running the EF1 motors on 5S. Most of them list 4S in the specification. I currently have the NTM, E-flite, OS and Rimfire.

Reason that I ask, working a little fun project on a EQM15 to try and get speeds up over EF1. The initial intention is to use the EF1 motors to start with. Provided that I can stuff one in the nose; it might be a tight fit.
JSC
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Re: EF-1 on 5s battery

Post by JSC »

Ok,
Maybe I have this wrong about needing only a Rare Bear Motor, ESC 5s battery set-up to go faster in EF-1.
Has anyone run a 5s in a EF-1 motor and turned 17500 RPM, with several flights and, no problems of burned-up equipment? :?:
cbk07
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Re: EF-1 on 5s battery

Post by cbk07 »

Doug,

I have asked Lloyd to reply. I know that they did spend a good bit of time testing, practicing and racing the setup. What I do not know is what different motors they tested them on and whether or not they had any failures on any equipment. He should be able to fill you in......
Last edited by cbk07 on Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
cbk07
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Re: EF-1 on 5s battery

Post by cbk07 »

On a side note, are you guys testing this for fun, practicing for faster classes or pushing to start up yet another class of pylon racing?
Thx,
Craig
pastpres
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Re: EF-1 on 5s battery

Post by pastpres »

In an effort to introduce electric fliers into racing, NEPRO conducted tests with a standard V-tail quickie built for a TT40 and converted it to electric. We started out with EF1 batteries, prop and motors. Radar results were slightly under 100mph. Wanting to stay with basic EF1 setups, we tried various props with the 4S packs and struggled to go over 100mph. We then jumped to a 2700ma 65C 5S and speeds increased in some cases over 120mph. Our goal was to match a good TT40 at 115mph. The E-Flite EF1 motor handled the 5S but with some props pushed the limit to 1243 watts and we feared would eventually burn up. The final combination we came up with was 5S 2700-3300ma-65C Nano Tech, Castle 75 Lite cont., E-Flite EF1 motor and the QM40 7.4 x 7.6 carbon prop. This combination netted 114 mph and a 975 watt draw. NEPRO will allow this combination to race with us in the standard class until they fly under 1:20 for 9 laps, 3 times. Once this is done, they will move to the expert class and use either a TT40 or EVO46. Short of the battery, this also gives them equipment for EF1 racing. We feel anyone who accomplishes flying into the expert class will be well hooked and be glad to go on to fuel engines and maybe even 426. Lloyd
dscherrer
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Re: EF-1 on 5s battery

Post by dscherrer »

Craig,
kinda came out of the discussion on RCG about why no electric quickies. This post by Duane. Figured I wouldn't mind having a faster electric anyways. Maybe shoot for something between 424 and 426 speeds. I've got a QM P51 fuse and cores to put together to see what i can do.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost ... stcount=17
ronin4740
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Re: EF-1 on 5s battery

Post by ronin4740 »

I agree with the idea of going to a QM15 frame and electrifying it in order to get more speed. With a bit of effort and testing I think we could identify a working and reasonably priced electronics setup which ought to get these airplanes into the 110 - 120mph range without too much trouble. I'll likely pick one up and see if I can get it built before the end of the season.

While I very much appreciate JSC's efforts to get more speed out of the existing EF1 airplanes it bears mentioning that the Invictus being used as a test bed has a solid foam core wing that can take the stress of pulling hard at pylon 1 at increased speed.

The other ARFs on the market have built up wings and as I've witnessed at least one Scarlet Screamer's wings folding during a two pole race resulting in a lawn dart. I doubt that it or any of the other ARFs could take the stress without rebuilding or significantly reinforcing the wing. Maybe the Proud Bird can but I don't think I'll test it with one of mine :)

I'd rather be able to choose from several of the QM15 airplanes currently available (and I understand that there are others who have molds but just aren't making them at present) rather than have to run a single airplane or have to reinforce and recover the wings on any of the ARFs out there in order to run another cell.

I'm 100% in favor of an QM15e category being run but would run in an EF1 Pro category if the majority opinion is to stuff another cell into the existing EF1 planes.
dscherrer
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Re: EF-1 on 5s battery

Post by dscherrer »

Chris,
just 110-120? Thought you were in a quest for speed. I am hoping for 130ish or more.

A to be honest, folks are already in the 110-120 range. When the EF1 times are close to the 424 times on the same course, the speeds are about the same.
ronin4740
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Re: EF-1 on 5s battery

Post by ronin4740 »

Was just a guess. Someone's going to have to build a QM15e, fiddle with props, motor, ESC and battery combo's and see what we can get it to do for 10 or so laps around the 424 short course.

I'm not much of a builder so I haven't pulled the trigger on a Rivets from Matney Models but if no one else will step up and do it I guess I'll have to :)
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