Standard and Expert Classes

A forum for electric pylon racing discussisons including Electric Formula 1.
User avatar

Topic Author
kane
Super Contributor
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:21 am
Location: Illinois
Flag: Ireland
Contact:

Standard and Expert Classes

Postby kane » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:10 pm

Over the last couple of years we have run both Standard and Expert classes of EF-1 at the US Nationals.

The distinction was done using a break out time. The time was 1:22. If you went faster you were an expert, if you went slower you were in the standard class.

All the pilots flew in one matrix. At the end of the contest the expert class was determined and then we look at the next highest non expert scores. This is a manual process but it doesn't take too long.

In the past many clubs used the 9 LAP rule. If you were a beginner you could fly 9 laps against guys that had to fly 10. This works well too. Once they start winning (Break out time is effective here too) they move up from beginner to standard and then to expert.

DK


JSC
Super Contributor
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed May 01, 2002 9:29 pm
Location: Placerville CA.
Flag: United States of America

Re: Standard and Expert Classes

Postby JSC » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:29 pm

Dane,
Break-out time determination is based on the EF-1 course, not, the longer 424/426 course?


ronin4740
Super Contributor
Posts: 215
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:18 pm
Flag: United States of America

Re: Standard and Expert Classes

Postby ronin4740 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:39 pm

I suppose the breakout time could be lowered appropriately for the longer 424/426 course. Shouldn't take too much research to figure out what the time should be...

Dan - if the guys out on the west coast were willing to try this out would the NMPRA be willing to track EF1 standard and expert standings separately?

Chris

User avatar

Topic Author
kane
Super Contributor
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:21 am
Location: Illinois
Flag: Ireland
Contact:

Re: Standard and Expert Classes

Postby kane » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:19 pm

JSC wrote:Dane,
Break-out time determination is based on the EF-1 course, not, the longer 424/426 course?


Correct... this was based on what we saw at Muncie. The fast time for the expert guys ranges from 1:08.xx to 1:11.xx. This is why we set the Standard time at 1:22.

A fast time for the 426 course is in the neighborhood of 1:24.xx to 1:28.xx. My best guess would be to add 10 seconds to this and use that.

How did the standard and expert stuff start at the NATS? To be honest, a couple years back my father before passing, got back into racing and he flew EF-1 at the Nats, and at that point although he had previously raced he wasn't in the same class as some of the seasoned pilots. He did very well that year, finishing just outside the trophies. However his times were 10 seconds slower than the guys ahead of him. So now you know the rest of the story. The next year I established the break out time and had trophies made.

Last year John McDermott won standard. And there has been some nut busting because of it. The problem is that we didn't set up additional rules, and the rules published allowed this to happen. I am not in charge of the nats any longer, but my recommendation is to use both a break out time and limit standard pilots to those not entered into 422. For example if you enter 422 you are automatically an expert in EF-1. If you enter 426 you may not be any expert and therefore for this condition use the break out time.

DK

User avatar

Topic Author
kane
Super Contributor
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 9:21 am
Location: Illinois
Flag: Ireland
Contact:

Re: Standard and Expert Classes

Postby kane » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:21 pm

ronin4740 wrote:I suppose the breakout time could be lowered appropriately for the longer 424/426 course. Shouldn't take too much research to figure out what the time should be...

Dan - if the guys out on the west coast were willing to try this out would the NMPRA be willing to track EF1 standard and expert standings separately?

Chris



Chris,

I am tallying the points. I have no problem separating them. I just need to have clean info. NOTE: we did not run separate matrices for the two classes. We mixed expert pilots with standard pilots and sorted out the finish at the end of the contest.

DK


ronin4740
Super Contributor
Posts: 215
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:18 pm
Flag: United States of America

Re: Standard and Expert Classes

Postby ronin4740 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:09 pm

Dan,

I understand that you ran everyone together and then separated the times at the end of the race. No worries - makes sense to do that rather than separate the two classes into different heats.

I've asked if Jim is willing to try this at Winterfest but he said he'd rather think about it and do this next year. It'd be nice if all of the CD's for EF1 contests would chime in here with their level of interest on doing this when they hold an EF1 event so everyone can get an idea of whether this is something which could be added to the rules when it's time to discuss amendments to the EF1 rules again...

Chris


edh-13
Contributor
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:13 am
Location: Mesa, Az

Re: Standard and Expert Classes

Postby edh-13 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:23 am

Wouldn't a simple percentage marker be a quick way of separating the classes?
This one multiplier could be applied to any race type, length, 2 pole, 3 pole...

Say - 120%.
Any racer with a fast time within 120% of the fast time for the event is considered an Expert.
(Fast time 1.08 - 68 seconds X 120% = 81.6 seconds) So anyone with a time >1:21.6 is scored in the Standard class.

Also, how about this - Once anyone has been scored in the Expert class for 3 events (pick a number 1, 3, 5) you are considered an Expert and can never be scored in the Standard class again.
Just my unsolicited 2 cents... :idea:
Eric


mcdracing
Contributor
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:21 pm
Flag: United States of America

Re: Standard and Expert Classes

Postby mcdracing » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:26 pm

Seems like there is barely enough interest in EF-1 to even have a race anywhere on the west coast anymore. I'm for doing whatever it takes to keep the class alive!


ronin4740
Super Contributor
Posts: 215
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:18 pm
Flag: United States of America

Re: Standard and Expert Classes

Postby ronin4740 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:40 am

FWIW the Whittier club has unanimously agreed not to replace one day of 424 with EF1 at their events in 2018...


Return to “Electric Pylon Racing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest