Clearest epoxy for glassing a Quickie fuse?

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Dave Yost
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Clearest epoxy for glassing a Quickie fuse?

Postby Dave Yost » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:49 am

Builders out there........
I am going to glass my Quickie fuselage's for this season's air frames. I have made test samples, one with WestSystems (special clear hardener) and the other was ZPoxy. I was not particularly impressed with either (yellowed over time). The plan is to glass, then a quick coat of PPG Clear.

I have seen some pretty "clear" glass jobs in the past, advice on Epoxy and what weight of cloth used would be appreciated! :D

(side note: also contemplating clear Ultracote....experience with that?)

Wings are done......with a little help from Bruce!

Cheers, Dave
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Re: Clearest epoxy for glassing a Quickie fuse?

Postby DonStegall » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:47 am

You are correct that the WEST SYSTEMS 105 resin with the 207 hardener is clear when you put it on. It does yellow some over time. But not a lot. Here is a Quickie done with The 207.

If you want night balsa colored fillets, this is the thing to use 410 Microlight Filler on the page at http://www.cstsales.com/west_fillers_additives.html ... StegallHobbies.com sells it in affordable 4 and 8 ounce sizes. Use cab-o-sil to get it to the right paste level. Haven't added it to Amazon, but will get it on there in a few days. See the bottom photo for the results.

I have heard the MGS is very clear and stays clear, but I have not used it. Dan Kane Jr uses it. Perhaps he can chime in.
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Re: Clearest epoxy for glassing a Quickie fuse?

Postby DonStegall » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:28 pm

BTW, I used Nelson Hobby Specialties for the clear over the epoxy. The LPU does not yellow. This is stuff they use on high dollar boats.

The Nelson paints were based on this product https://www.systemthree.com/products/wr-lpu-polyurethane-topcoat.

With the cross-linker (second part), it is fuel proof to at least 20%. With the cross-linker added, you have to use it when you mix it. If you are using these paints in a case where you don't need fuel proof, the linker is not required. And you can return unused portions to the container.

The really nice thing about this paint is that it has no VOC's and you can actually airbrush it inside. It is also water clean-up and thinning, so that is nice. But it dries really fast and can be hard to get off a spray gun or brush if you don't keep it wet. Acetone will cut it before it fully cures.

This is how I keep my SATA MiniJet III HVLP gun from getting hard paint on it and keep the nozzle clear while I multi-coat. Just a 2 or 2 and a half gallon bucket full or water.
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Re: Clearest epoxy for glassing a Quickie fuse?

Postby Bruce Coffey » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:32 pm

Hi Dave, I would recommend EZ Lam available from ACP composites in Livermore CA. It doesn't seem to yellow but is slow to dry. Also it is important that it is mixed in the proper proportion . I use 1.4 oz. cloth on the nose up to the wing and on the fuselage tail where the v-tail rests. .75 oz. on the rest. Bruce


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Re: Clearest epoxy for glassing a Quickie fuse?

Postby DonStegall » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:40 pm

Sorry, one more thing. The S3 LPU clear (and all of the paints) have UV protection to avoid yellowing. It stops the epoxy from yellowing as much.

One issue with the LPU is that it does not build very much and goes on very light. I did not get all of the pinholes on this plane filled and you can see it if you look up close.

I really hope Nelson Specialties paints are still available, otherwise I will have to go to Klass Kote for a lot os stuff.

You cannot paint in the mold with the S3 or Nelson paints. They will not adhere to wax. And with them being water reducible, you cannot use PVA in the molds or the paint will melt it.

They work great on foamies except for EPO. For EPO use hobby acrylics from WalMart.


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Re: Clearest epoxy for glassing a Quickie fuse?

Postby Dave Yost » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:07 am

Pretty good down load, thanks guys. I have used EZLam before on a home built airplane project. I will look into that.

As for the clear, I have a bunch of PPG Concept sitting around. (If I can still get hardener for it in SoCal!)

Bruce, that low wing quickie you had a few seasons ago, was that EZLam? I remember that glass job being about the best I have ever seen. Very well done.

Cheers, Dave


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Re: Clearest epoxy for glassing a Quickie fuse?

Postby Dave Yost » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:15 am

MGS is available from Aircraft Spruce and Specialties, that's on the way to Whittier Narrows!

Dan K., if you are monitoring, which hardener do you use, the Fast or the Slow? My WAG is the slow would be best?

Thanks, Dave

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Re: Clearest epoxy for glassing a Quickie fuse?

Postby kane » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:36 am

Dave Yost wrote:MGS is available from Aircraft Spruce and Specialties, that's on the way to Whittier Narrows!

Dan K., if you are monitoring, which hardener do you use, the Fast or the Slow? My WAG is the slow would be best?

Thanks, Dave


I use the fast.

DK


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Re: Clearest epoxy for glassing a Quickie fuse?

Postby GaryS » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:37 am

Dave,

If the PPG clear you have uses DCX61 hardener, this seems to be a good replacement. I used it with 2042 clear and it seemed to act just like DCX61.

Harold Sattler tested some of their single stage in a mold and he said it worked good as well...and is MUCH cheaper than PPG!
122E9F52-A6D4-4176-AF96-19E01277ECD4.png
GS


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Re: Clearest epoxy for glassing a Quickie fuse?

Postby DonStegall » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:56 am

Dave Yost wrote:MGS is available from Aircraft Spruce and Specialties, that's on the way to Whittier Narrows!

Dan K., if you are monitoring, which hardener do you use, the Fast or the Slow? My WAG is the slow would be best?

Thanks, Dave


Dave,

On the CST site about MGS ... >>> Good physiological compatibility and mechanical properties. Long shelf life and adjustable pot life by blending hardeners. Post cure recommended for maximum temperature tolerance. <<< at http://www.cstsales.com/mgs_epoxy_ss107.html

I have not used MGS, but I'm going to drive to Aircraft Spruce in Atlanta to buy 2 to 4 quarts or more of the slow so I don't have to pay for HazMat and Box charges.

The cool thing is that you can blend the hardeners to adjust your pot life and cure time.

I am VERY experienced with all of the WEST SYSTEM epoxies in the 105 resin, and 205/206/207/209 hardeners. The Special Clear 207 will not yellow if protected with a UV protectant clear paint.

I'll post a couple of good photos of my Screamer done with 207 and 0.7 ounce cloth ... The biggest thing about glassing a Quickie is to only try to do one side at a time. then lightly sand the edges of the last layer before adding another side. Use Viva paper towels to absorb extra epoxy. But sand it lightly and if need add some epoxy to fill the pinholes. Or you can just use Klass Kote http://www.klasskote.com/stock-color-kits clear epoxy paint. Even with the Klass Kote, I would sand it and then use the urethane for UV protection. If you do it right, it doesn't add much weight.


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Re: Clearest epoxy for glassing a Quickie fuse?

Postby Bruce Coffey » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:03 am

Dave, No that quickie was done with Z poxy. It just hadn't been in the sun much.


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Re: Clearest epoxy for glassing a Quickie fuse?

Postby Dave Yost » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:52 am

Thanks All!

Cheers, Dave


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Re: Clearest epoxy for glassing a Quickie fuse?

Postby DonStegall » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:35 am

Dave,

Here is my Screamer with a finish using .7 ounce cloth, WEST SYSTEMS 105/207, and System Three clear with cross-linker.

Pardon the dirty floors. The front entrance foyer got a lot of use in the Christmas / New Years activities and Cindy has been sick on and off the last two weeks.

The receiver and battery are out of this plane right now. I'm putting a Spektrum AS3X receiver in it. I love gyros.

As I mentioned, for very nice matching fillets, you can use Micro Light. If you need to darken it a bit, some brown phenolic micro-balloons can be added to darken as needed. Use cab-o-sil to thick and apply then smooth with a finger dipped in 91% alcohol.

My Dad has built some fine furniture http://www.stegallhobbies.com/Gallery ... He asked me why I was building planes that look like fine furniture. One of the nicest compliments I have gotten from him about model airplanes.
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Topic Author
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Re: Clearest epoxy for glassing a Quickie fuse?

Postby Dave Yost » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:51 am

Looks good.

Well, to most normal people, spending 200 hrs. building a race plane, just to see it eventually re-kit itself is a little nonsensical.

We are remodeling our family room this year. I have a Prather Little Tony kit (F1). I am going to build it, paint it exactly like the one on the box and mount it above the fire place. I am going to leave the torque rods and elevator push rod out, to ensure it NEVER flies....LOL........Every time I quick this hobby, I make the mistake of leaving one servo screw on the floor.........I go to bed......and Shaazzam....the screw morphs into a new pylon racer!

Glass work looks good.

Cheers, Dave


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Re: Clearest epoxy for glassing a Quickie fuse?

Postby DonStegall » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:49 am

Thanks Dave.

This plane was built when my shop was fully organized with tables for engine work, a table for sheeting Quickie wings, a table just for cutting fiberglass and balsa, a table just for fiberglass work, and a table just for building. I'm eventually getting it back to that state. I have been more focused on the fiberglass molds.

But I was commissioned to build two of these without the tail pieces installed, but fully shaped and hinged.

Using a jig I have, I can build one of these in a week of evenings, not including the finishing. I do the glassing before putting the taii surfaces in. I use a circular Dremel saw blade on the tail pieces to cut slots for 1/64th plywood. I then shape the surfaces using a 1" belt sander for the main shaping then finish with sanding blocks. I can shape a tail in a few hours. Putting the cloth on is easy with the right technique.

While I'm building the two for the New Zealander, I'm going to build two for myself. I will video tape the building to show how fast it can be done.

I was using Viper wings on these, but I can cut the S8064 already and have sold quite a few sheeted ones. I'm going to start putting my own wings on these. Wings don't take long if you get the techniques down.

I've been cutting them on a scroll saw doing 8 pieces at once with the balsa 3M77'd together. But I think I'm going to get some laser cut. The plans for this plane and the wood version of The Smasher including the jig plans are available. I'm making a minor revision to the Screamer fuselage sides. The Viper wing is about 1/16" thick at the rear. I drew the plans for a sharp TE, and I have to add a little filler piece behind the wing and in front of the servo hatch to smooth things out

It's a good flying plane, but I think I'm going to increase the stab and fin area just a little. It flies better than a Viper 500, but still has the docile characteristics.

I will be bringing out a number of proven laser cut Quickie 500 and EF1 planes this year. Even some classics like the Spickler Quickie 500.
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