Phoenix Q40 Classic Feb 2025

[RSmith]

The Speedworld RC Flyers in Phoenix, AZ are happy to announce the return of Q40 pylon racing for 2025.
You asked for it, and it’s back! February 1st, 2nd 2025

See race flyer below for details.

Since we last held a race at the club there has been some significant residential development within one half mile of the club site. For this reason, there are some important changes to be aware of in terms of race start time, engine run periods, and test flying. The most significant of these is the following: Two full days of practice will be allowed on Thursday and Friday prior to race weekend. Absolutely no practice flying will be allowed on Saturday and Sunday morning prior to the race so that we can minimize the noise impact on the nearby residents.

Bill Blake, our club president, has made arrangements for a group rate of $149.00 per night at the Best Western Plus hotel on Grand Ave. Further, the club is happy to allow dry camping at the field during our club events. Dry camping in hard side RVs is allowed from Tuesday through Saturday nights.

Eight rounds over two days.
$50 cash heat in every round flown.
Trophies provided for first, second, third and Fast Time.

Escape your chilly winter for a week and race with us in the Valley of the Sun once again!
Make plans now.

[DT]

Randy,
This is great news! And camping there is terrific! Thanks for all the hard work you and your team has put into this!

See you there!

[craigfarthing]

Does anyone know where we can fill our rv’s with water when we bring them to the race. I didn’t want to haul 30 gallons of water 900 miles.

[ceandra]

I plan to attend and team with Dan Thordarson

Chuck Andraka

[airplanescotty]

Does anyone know where we can fill our rv’s with water when we bring them to the race. I didn’t want to haul 30 gallons of water 900 miles.

Being Older and slower we dive into a KOA , for the night, and while there fill the water tanks... Typically KOA's are on a well, so they don't care about the cost of their water!!


Scotty

[sahartman21]

I plan on attending.

Scott Hartman

[gtmeux]

Hello Everyone, my first post here. I have been helping the Speedworld club in planning this race. Thanks Jim for all the years having the race. I remember going as a spectator as a child and great memories.

If you can it would be great to have you register sooner than later! I also wanted to share the trophies on what they will look like. They came out pretty nice, they are a stone/quartz/resin made trophies. they weigh over 3lbs each! I put a q40 next to it for size reference.

thanks
gerald meux, jr.

[Dr.Doolittle]

Hi Gerald,

Nice trophies. I don't see any feathers on these trophies. That must be an error???

Roy

[RSmith]

The planning committee for the Phoenix Q40 race is working to create a fun and exciting race for everyone.
We noticed that the NMPRA Champ Race in Muncie was flown with three-plane heats rather than four-plane heats.

What is your opinion on this? We aim to complete eight rounds over the two day competition.
Would you rather race with three planes - less bad air, less chance for mid-airs, a little longer day of it or
would you prefer to race with four planes - more action, more excitement and a little shorter day?

Please let us know your thoughts here.

Randy S.

[ceandra]

Randy:

I would vote for 4-plane heats.

While three-plane heats reduce the quantity of mid-airs, it also reduces the quantity of racing, perhaps close to the same amount. This results in significant flyoffs after 8 rounds. Lets use the Champ race as an example and look at the numbers.

52 entries. 3 lanes, 18 heats per round, 2 open slots (two 2-plane races per round). 4 lanes, 13 heats per round.

If we assume same number of rounds (8):
1. 3 Lanes, you race 16 other pilots, or 30%. 4 lanes you race 24 other pilots, or 46%
2. 3 lanes about 1.5 hours per round, 4 lanes 1:05 per round. 8 rounds in 12 hours for 3 lanes, 8:20 for four
3. Points to lose. If we look at the available points to lose (ignoring zeros), for the entire race, with three lanes there are 432 points to lose (each heat you can lose 0, 1, or 2 points ignoring zeros). This is 8 points per pilot. With 4 lanes, there are 624 points to lose, or 12 per pilot. This is a major reason so many ties at the top after 8 rounds. There just was not a lot of opportunity to drop points!
4. To race the same number of other pilots you would have to go 12 rounds with three lanes. At the rate that ties were falling in the last few rounds, it is likely that most ties would have cleared by the end of 12 rounds.
5. Some fly-offs had more people tied than lanes to fly. Fortunately several people declined to fly off reducing the largest fly-off to 3 people.
6. We had, if I recall right, about 3 mid-airs and 3 bad air crashes, give or take one of each. That means after 12 rounds of 3-lane racing we might expect 4.5 of each. This seems consistent with 8 rounds of 4-lane racing. Therefore, the reduction of crashes appears to be due to the reduction of racing
6. In 3-plane racing, you saw 8 people in each other lane, out of a possible 18, or less than half. With 4-plane races, you would also see 8 from each lane, but out of 13, or almost 2/3 of opponents in each lane. While we strive to have a balanced race lane vs lane, like-skilled pilots tend to team up more often than not, so it is possible to miss the buzz saw in one lane, or get the whole buzz saw and no donkeys. The distribution of skill WITHIN a lane is skewed by teaming arrangements.

If we assume rather than equal rounds we go equal time, then the 144 heats run at the champ race with 3 lanes would have been 11 rounds, with a little time left over. This skews the numbers even more toward more racing for the dollars spent (entry, travel, etc.).

Let's say we run 10 rounds (rather than 11) with 4-plane heats. Now you will have 780 total points available to lose, or 15 per pilot. Each pilot would see 30 other pilots, or 58% of the entries. Each pilot would see 10 pilots out of 13 in each lane, or 77% of pilots outside their own lane. So with 10 rounds, 4 lanes, it takes less time (over an hour less), and you race against just about twice as many other pilots.

Yes, the total number of crashes will be higher, but the total number of racing pairs will also go up dramatically. I suspect that the total crashes may increase slightly faster than the number of pilot pairings, but based on the Champ Race results I don't think that rate is that different.

I would rather double my racing, and have a more level playing field by everyone racing a higher percentage of their opponents. I think 3-lane racing has its place in smaller races, particularly those races under about 20-25 entries, where you will still race against most or all of your opponents in 4-6 rounds. In larger races, I would rather increase the racing. I don't think the crashes increase at a much faster rate than the race pairings increase with 4 lanes.

Just my opinion, I am sure that others differ on this.

Chuck
11H

[RSmith]

Thanks Chuck. I appreciate your very thorough analysis of the situation and detailed explanation.
Our group will meet to discuss.

Thanks.

Randy S.

[killerd]

Ultimately I agree with Chuck 100% and thanks for soliciting input. I would like to compliment Tom and Dan who were in charge of the format for the Champ Race. I think it’s great that they tried something different. In my opinion, 3 plane heats favor the better pilots simply because it’s less likely they will see many rounds with more than 1 “in their kitchen” for all 10 laps, hence the less mid-airs. It’s also easier to make up for a zero as Chuck indicates with more points at stake. 3 plane heats also give way to several 1 plane heats later in the matrix as attrition comes into play. I absolutely loved the race horse starts and felt that gave everyone an equal shot in every heat, so as a competitor, I would vote for that every time given the opportunity. I think the majority preferred this 3 plane format, but I didn’t take an official poll, so I think Chuck and I are in the minority. Both formats have pros and cons and applaud the efforts of Tom to stay the course and deliver a different format for the Champ Race..

I look forward to PHX 2025 whatever the format is..

Doug K

[vonderhey]

Maybe four plane heats. Racehorse start. Spread em out.
Von Der Hey

[MikeyD]

For the amount of people I favor 4 plane heats.

[kane]

Tom and I settled on 3 plane heats for a couple of reasons. The main reason being workers. Even though this is a common location for racing throughout the year it is harder and harder to find "QUALIFIED" workers. We normally work with the local Boyscout troop. They have been awesome and there are some regular faces that still help us at our races. As they get older fewer of the normal workers become available. That along with 2 normal races and the NATs it is simply tough to get people to give up time. Tom really emphasized coaching the workers on their duties and I think this was huge success. The next major factor was having a seasoned pilot on the start finish line. Jim Nikodem ran the line along with Rich (our normal starter in Muncie). It was apparent that Jim and Rich did a great job!!

As Chuck pointed out the draw backs are: Time, and Competing against others.

We had one fly off with 4 pilots and only 3 lanes of workers. But... This could have been much worse if the 8 way tie hadn't sorted itself out. IT did and in the end we only had 3 fly-offs, 3 plane, 3plane and 2 plane (if I remember correctly). Currently, there are no written rules on how to handle when you have more pilots tied than the number of available lanes. (YOU smart guys submit a rules proposal).

Racehorse start was one of the biggest pluses. It was easier for the starter to see who pushed early and there was zero complaints about 1st push vs 2nd.

1 plane and 2 plane heats at the end is not really valid. We see this all the time with 4 plane heats at big contests. It is common that guys drop for whatever the reason. I almost think we had more guys flying longer with 3 plane heats because it was easier to make up points.

Crashing is crashing, it sucks. We did have 1 or 2 mid-airs on take off.

DK